Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

UFC, Bellator, Invicta, M-1, One FC, KSW, World Series of Fighting, and many more

Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby PainDog » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:18 am

Amongst world leaders one name seems to be more closely associated with combat sports than any other, that is Ramzan Kadyrov the Head of the Chechen Republic. Whether it is having his children competing in full contact MMA matches, his own MMA fight club Akhmat Fight Club, or hosting and sponsoring international fighters such as Mike Tyson, Badr Hari, Fabricio Werdum etc. his name has come to be in media headlines for combat sports as often as most fighters.


Image


As Ramzan’s infamy has grown so has condemnation of Ramzan himself and those who associate with him.

When we read of Ramzan we are constantly reminded of his intolerance, reminded of death squads, and the alleged torturing of homosexuals.

Comments which he has made many of which likely hyperbole such as challenging the UFC to face off against Akhmat Fight Club in “fights to the death” end up being presented as the literal challenges of a maniac.

There is rarely a mention that Ramzan is only the leader of an autonomous region, not an actual country. He is only allowed to lead Chechnya as long as the Russians allow him to lead Chechnya. Chechnya is an occupied region in the northern Caucuses.

Image



Prior to Ramzan’s political faction, which was previously lead by his father, being given control of Chechnya, the region had spent the previous ten years in a bloody war against Russia, wars which cost up to hundreds of thousands of lives. Casualties which are not too different than those in Syria now.

Even if we go beyond the Chechen wars in the 1990’s, and consider that Chechens have been fighting for independence since their country was first occupied in the late 1700’s, the cumulative death toll from the beginning of Chechen resistance would number in the millions, and also resulted in the displacement of hundreds of thousands of people.


Image
IImam Shamil (1797-1871), an Avar (same ethnic group as Khabib and most Dagestani MMA fighters) political and religious leader of anti-Russian resistance in the Caucasian War, was the third Imam of Dagestan and Chechnya (1834-1859).

The Kadyrov faction was able to largely bring peace to Chechnya by allying and pledging allegiance to Russia while not sacrificing the Chechen identity.


Image
Grozny the capital of Chechnya during the war


Image
Grozny the capital of Chechnya today


Many of the qualities Ramzan publicly displays such as his shows of machoism and social conservatism are part of the Chechen culture.

When we view Ramzan we need to do so by putting everything in context. He has the characteristics that a leader would need to have control of Chechen society, considering the current circumstances and culture of the society. We cannot compare him to leaders in countries or regions with established social and security controls. Those controls do not yet exist in Chechnya, in the same sense they do not exist in Afghanistan.



By having control and appealing to the Chechen identity Ramzan has been able to increase economic growth as stated in the Carnegie Moscow Center “As for Chechnya’s economic outlook, the sustainability of the Chechen miracle was entirely contingent on Kadyrov’s ability to deliver. The initial benefits were obvious: repaired roads, the absence of checkpoints, nights free of fighting. These were followed by the construction of schools, daycare centers, parks, and stadiums. An entire generation of Chechens proudly adorned themselves in Kadyrov T-shirts.”

From the same article they wrote about his appeal to the Chechen identity “The greatest innovation in Kadyrov’s leadership model was the incorporation of Chechen nationalism into the system of national patriotism advocating Russia as a great power.”

Does that excuse his actions? No it does not. However, expectations of gay rights and increased political freedoms do not fairly represent the current situation and really current need of Chechen society.

Integration and modernization of Chechen trade will likely lead to social and cultural changes. Ostracizing and isolating the Chechen government will only lead to resentment and strengthen resistance to the outside world.

Russia made peace with Chechnya by allowing the society to have greater autonomy and keep it’s ethnic identity, which has resulted primarily in peace and progress. Perhaps if the rest of the world can engage Chechnya in much the same way there can be further peace and progress.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Chechnya

http://carnegie.ru/2016/10/27/chechnya- ... -pub-64955

Image
Bai-Ali Shaipov

“Do not let your difficulties fill you with anxiety, after all it is only in the darkest nights that stars shine more brightly.”
Ali Ibn Taleb
User avatar
PainDog
Mod Emeritus
 
Posts: 7099
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Doha, Qatar
Accolades: Nov. 2017 MMALinker Fantasy B-League Champion

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby slevin » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:21 am





I think it was current UFC flyw Magomed Bibulatov who harassed Fedor, whenever Fedor commented on Kadryov's children MMA matches.
Sigbet: 51-35-4

Title Bets: 1-1

Image
slevin
Interim Champion
Interim Champion
 
Posts: 20942
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:38 pm
Accolades: 1st ever Draft Style Pick Em Champion
The Last Man Standing: Royal Rumble Champ
Former Lightweight Sig-Betting Champ
2014 MMALinker Grand Prix Winner
Survivor
Grand Prix Survivor Champion
June 2017 MMALinker Fantasy C-League Champion
MMALinker August Fantasy Fix GP Champion

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby PainDog » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:29 am

Yeah Slevin, those sorts of interviews and reports are what I am referring too when I say we are getting only one side of the story.

For what it is worth Kadyrov condemned the attack on Fedor's daughter.
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/10/14/ ... ite-ethnic
Image
Bai-Ali Shaipov

“Do not let your difficulties fill you with anxiety, after all it is only in the darkest nights that stars shine more brightly.”
Ali Ibn Taleb
User avatar
PainDog
Mod Emeritus
 
Posts: 7099
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Doha, Qatar
Accolades: Nov. 2017 MMALinker Fantasy B-League Champion

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby slevin » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:30 am

http://www.bjjee.com/wp-content/uploads ... chech2.jpg

I think Ali Abdel Aziz a manager to most UFC fighters and fighters from Russia/Chechnya has ties to Kadryov too. When Weidman and Mir were asked about Kadryov they just dance around the question.
Sigbet: 51-35-4

Title Bets: 1-1

Image
slevin
Interim Champion
Interim Champion
 
Posts: 20942
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:38 pm
Accolades: 1st ever Draft Style Pick Em Champion
The Last Man Standing: Royal Rumble Champ
Former Lightweight Sig-Betting Champ
2014 MMALinker Grand Prix Winner
Survivor
Grand Prix Survivor Champion
June 2017 MMALinker Fantasy C-League Champion
MMALinker August Fantasy Fix GP Champion

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby PainDog » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:32 am

slevin wrote:http://www.bjjee.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/chech2.jpg

I think Ali Abdel Aziz a manager to most UFC fighters and fighters from Russia/Chechnya has ties to Kadryov too. When Weidman and Mir were asked about Kadryov they just dance around the question.


Did you read my original post?

Because Kadyrov goes well beyond MMA, and while he is certainly not an ideal individual the improvements in Chechen society which have occurred under his leadership are remarkable.
Image
Bai-Ali Shaipov

“Do not let your difficulties fill you with anxiety, after all it is only in the darkest nights that stars shine more brightly.”
Ali Ibn Taleb
User avatar
PainDog
Mod Emeritus
 
Posts: 7099
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Doha, Qatar
Accolades: Nov. 2017 MMALinker Fantasy B-League Champion

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby slevin » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:38 am

PainDog wrote:
slevin wrote:http://www.bjjee.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/chech2.jpg

I think Ali Abdel Aziz a manager to most UFC fighters and fighters from Russia/Chechnya has ties to Kadryov too. When Weidman and Mir were asked about Kadryov they just dance around the question.


Did you read my original post?

Because Kadyrov goes well beyond MMA, and while he is certainly not an ideal individual the improvements in Chechen society which have occurred under his leadership are remarkable.

Now I have, will read threads before posting in the future! Not sure what I can add, but I guess those two videos can help people make their mind up about Kadryov.

EDIT: My apologies, didn't mean to fill your thread with bashing of Kadryov.
Sigbet: 51-35-4

Title Bets: 1-1

Image
slevin
Interim Champion
Interim Champion
 
Posts: 20942
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:38 pm
Accolades: 1st ever Draft Style Pick Em Champion
The Last Man Standing: Royal Rumble Champ
Former Lightweight Sig-Betting Champ
2014 MMALinker Grand Prix Winner
Survivor
Grand Prix Survivor Champion
June 2017 MMALinker Fantasy C-League Champion
MMALinker August Fantasy Fix GP Champion

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby PainDog » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:48 am

slevin wrote:
PainDog wrote:
slevin wrote:http://www.bjjee.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/chech2.jpg

I think Ali Abdel Aziz a manager to most UFC fighters and fighters from Russia/Chechnya has ties to Kadryov too. When Weidman and Mir were asked about Kadryov they just dance around the question.


Did you read my original post?

Because Kadyrov goes well beyond MMA, and while he is certainly not an ideal individual the improvements in Chechen society which have occurred under his leadership are remarkable.

Not I have, will read threads before posting in the future! Not sure what I can add, but I guess those two videos can help people make their mind up about Kadryov.


I think people are quite aware of all the negative things this man has done and is accused of doing.

Reality though isn't so binary like most people seem to think, often you cannot just draw a line in the sand and say this individual or nation is good and that one is bad.

Nations and even individuals are more complicated and often have both good and bad qualities and how you view them depends on your own perspective.

Take World War II, no war in human history is presented in with such a black and white, good and evil narrative.

The Allied powers weren't just good, they were almost mythically good on par with superheroes. In reality though the Allied powers had colonized much of the world and killed millions of people, even now many of the problems still facing developing countries are a direct result of Allied nations such as France, the UK, and even the United States.
Image
Bai-Ali Shaipov

“Do not let your difficulties fill you with anxiety, after all it is only in the darkest nights that stars shine more brightly.”
Ali Ibn Taleb
User avatar
PainDog
Mod Emeritus
 
Posts: 7099
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Doha, Qatar
Accolades: Nov. 2017 MMALinker Fantasy B-League Champion

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby PainDog » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:51 am

slevin wrote:Now I have, will read threads before posting in the future! Not sure what I can add, but I guess those two videos can help people make their mind up about Kadryov.

EDIT: My apologies, didn't mean to fill your thread with bashing of Kadryov.


No need to apologize, he does deserve to be bashed, but the positive things he has done also needs to be mentioned, people need to have a full picture and keep everything in context when forming opinions.
Image
Bai-Ali Shaipov

“Do not let your difficulties fill you with anxiety, after all it is only in the darkest nights that stars shine more brightly.”
Ali Ibn Taleb
User avatar
PainDog
Mod Emeritus
 
Posts: 7099
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Doha, Qatar
Accolades: Nov. 2017 MMALinker Fantasy B-League Champion

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby 83koper83 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:46 am

I don't know. Russia and Caucasus in particular just seem so... specific. Sometimes I think that all people inhabiting lands east to Germany (starting with my own people: Poles :lolol: ) just aren't fit for 'democracy'. Not in the form known to Western Europe, America etc. anyway. Look at Poland now. The election results from two years ago were somehow shocking for European public opinion: conservative, Christian, yet somehow economically socialist party took over by a landslide, and since then the polls for Them are skyrocketing. The EU parliament is crying rape over issues such as gay rights, nepotism and executive goverment interfering with juidical system, and... well, most of the voters don't give a fuck. Not that it was really any different before: it's just the previous guys kept up the appearances and gladly claimed to be pro everything 'European' (which in modern Poland translates to: progressive).

As for Kadyrov - yes, it's true that the man has become somewhat of a boogeyman. Justifyingly so, in my opinion. If anything, the fact that inbetween two wars He switched sides and from fighting for independence turned to hunting down freedom fighters makes Him somehow sleazy. And I'm not even dreaming of cracking the issue of 'who was right there'. It's just I think all this man and His father ever wanted was power. And They came to power, betting on the right horse in the right moment.
83koper83
Green Belt
Green Belt
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:48 am

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby PainDog » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:02 pm

83koper83 wrote:I don't know. Russia and Caucasus in particular just seem so... specific. Sometimes I think that all people inhabiting lands east to Germany (starting with my own people: Poles :lolol: ) just aren't fit for 'democracy'. Not in the form known to Western Europe, America etc. anyway. Look at Poland now. The election results from two years ago were somehow shocking for European public opinion: conservative, Christian, yet somehow economically socialist party took over by a landslide, and since then the polls for Them are skyrocketing. The EU parliament is crying rape over issues such as gay rights, nepotism and executive goverment interfering with juidical system, and... well, most of the voters don't give a fuck. Not that it was really any different before: it's just the previous guys kept up the appearances and gladly claimed to be pro everything 'European' (which in modern Poland translates to: progressive).

As for Kadyrov - yes, it's true that the man has become somewhat of a boogeyman. Justifyingly so, in my opinion. If anything, the fact that inbetween two wars He switched sides and from fighting for independence turned to hunting down freedom fighters makes Him somehow sleazy. And I'm not even dreaming of cracking the issue of 'who was right there'. It's just I think all this man and His father ever wanted was power. And They came to power, betting on the right horse in the right moment.


Societies have the right to dictate the kind of societies they want, even if it makes the "West" unhappy.

Kadyrov is likely a sleazy guy, but that doesn't change the fact that his government has been able to do something remarkable, which is align Russian loyalty while simultaneously increasing the Chechen identity.

If other minority groups living in conflict as part of a larger country led by another ethnic group such as the Kurds in Turkey, Iran, and Iraq...in particular in Turkey were able to achieve the same the world would be a much more peaceful place.
Image
Bai-Ali Shaipov

“Do not let your difficulties fill you with anxiety, after all it is only in the darkest nights that stars shine more brightly.”
Ali Ibn Taleb
User avatar
PainDog
Mod Emeritus
 
Posts: 7099
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Doha, Qatar
Accolades: Nov. 2017 MMALinker Fantasy B-League Champion

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby 83koper83 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:39 pm

PainDog wrote:
Societies have the right to dictate the kind of societies they want, even if it makes the "West" unhappy.


I agree.

PainDog wrote:Kadyrov is likely a sleazy guy, but that doesn't change the fact that his government has been able to do something remarkable, which is align Russian loyalty while simultaneously increasing the Chechen identity.


It could be argued that every single one of the Chechynian clan leaders could be a Russian puppet there, provided They were ready to bow down before Kremlin. I can agree with the statement that this kind of compromise is probably a lesser evil, which mitigates the violence. Everything is better for the economy, education and infrastructure than war.

I just hope there will be at least five top ten contenders coming from the Akhmat FC to justify all of this :lolol: .
83koper83
Green Belt
Green Belt
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:48 am

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby PainDog » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:51 pm

83koper83 wrote:
PainDog wrote:
Societies have the right to dictate the kind of societies they want, even if it makes the "West" unhappy.


I agree.

PainDog wrote:Kadyrov is likely a sleazy guy, but that doesn't change the fact that his government has been able to do something remarkable, which is align Russian loyalty while simultaneously increasing the Chechen identity.


It could be argued that every single one of the Chechynian clan leaders could be a Russian puppet there, provided They were ready to bow down before Kremlin. I can agree with the statement that this kind of compromise is probably a lesser evil, which mitigates the violence. Everything is better for the economy, education and infrastructure than war.

I just hope there will be at least five top ten contenders coming from the Akhmat FC to justify all of this :lolol: .


I agree with you.

Personally, I would ideally like to see all the Northern Caucuses as free countries. I've actually known several people from Jordan whose origins were from Circassia whose recent ancestors had to flee from their homeland due to the Russian invasions.

However, I don't think a free Chechnya or Circassia is anymore likely than a free Kurdistan in what is now Turkey, or the freedom of Xinjiang in what is now China, and in all cases a compromise that protects their respective identities is the "lesser evil".

...and yeah we need to see some top ranked talent from Akhmat FC since Kadyrov has made combat sports such a focus.
Image
Bai-Ali Shaipov

“Do not let your difficulties fill you with anxiety, after all it is only in the darkest nights that stars shine more brightly.”
Ali Ibn Taleb
User avatar
PainDog
Mod Emeritus
 
Posts: 7099
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Doha, Qatar
Accolades: Nov. 2017 MMALinker Fantasy B-League Champion

Re: Ramzan Kadyrov: More than just a Tyrant?

Postby Mr Meow » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:11 pm

PainDog wrote:
83koper83 wrote:
PainDog wrote:
Societies have the right to dictate the kind of societies they want, even if it makes the "West" unhappy.


I agree.

PainDog wrote:Kadyrov is likely a sleazy guy, but that doesn't change the fact that his government has been able to do something remarkable, which is align Russian loyalty while simultaneously increasing the Chechen identity.


It could be argued that every single one of the Chechynian clan leaders could be a Russian puppet there, provided They were ready to bow down before Kremlin. I can agree with the statement that this kind of compromise is probably a lesser evil, which mitigates the violence. Everything is better for the economy, education and infrastructure than war.

I just hope there will be at least five top ten contenders coming from the Akhmat FC to justify all of this :lolol: .


I agree with you.

Personally, I would ideally like to see all the Northern Caucuses as free countries. I've actually known several people from Jordan whose origins were from Circassia whose recent ancestors had to flee from their homeland due to the Russian invasions.

However, I don't think a free Chechnya or Circassia is anymore likely than a free Kurdistan in what is now Turkey, or the freedom of Xinjiang in what is now China, and in all cases a compromise that protects their respective identities is the "lesser evil".

...and yeah we need to see some top ranked talent from Akhmat FC since Kadyrov has made combat sports such a focus.



Unfortunately for my fantasy team Akhmats #1 guy overall got knocked the fuck out in the first round by John fucking Moraga. Dammit Bibulatov

Kerim Edilov made his ufc debut recently though.

I think that is the only 2 fighters who train there full time who are signed to the UFC. Werdum does some promotional stuff for Akhmat and trains there some but he is not a full time member.

They have some really talented guys the ufc should sign though.

Spoiler:
Rakhman dudaev (21-4)
Khusein Khaliev (17-1)
Salman Zhamaldaev (15-1)
Akhmed Shervaniev (10-0-1)
etc etc
Image Image


Officially 4-2 in sig bets. *pats back* 5 time A league champion. :gold: :gold: :gold: :gold: :gold: October Team: Bibulatov, Dariush, Trice, Wireckz,
User avatar
Mr Meow
1st Professional Linker Victory
1st Professional Linker Victory
 
Posts: 8782
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Lin Kuei training camp
Accolades: Nov. 2015, Dec. 2015, Jan. 2016, April 2016, May 2016, Nov. 2016 MMALinker Fantasy A-League Champion, April 2017 MMALinker Fantasy B-League Champion, 2016 Highest Overall MMALinker Fantasy Score, Survivor